Merrill!!! Bless you for the Toshi screed! As a half Japanese (retired) television producer (I know who does the heavy lifting in same, hence my worship of YOUR work) I went to a fancy screening (got swag, thanks marketing people) but was silently screaming about Toshi’s slight. I haven’t complained too much in public, saying rather “as a general rule, I don’t go for biopics but I’m glad new audiences will discover this music.” But YOU are my Christmas blessing. May Bob’s lights sparkle for you if you want em too.
Toshi was nothing like depicted in the film. I knew Pete and Toshi very well for more than 40 years - from when I was really still a kid. Toshi was a force of nature. She was not an adoring Stepford wife. She was, in fact, Pete's highly influential and very active co-manager along with Harold Leventhal. She was brilliant, and she took no prisoners. She called a spade a spade. And she was the consummate organizer. By that I am not referring to closets. Pete would have an idealistic dream, like building a Sloop and making it a flagship of the environmental movement. Then Toshi would leverage his celebrity and her management expertise and strategic vision to make it happen. Personally, I considered her a second mother. The last time I saw her to speak to her, when I was in my fifties, I must have been going through some sort of midlife crisis because I'd let my hair grow long. I was up at their house with my son Bill and Bill's college roommate helping Toshi and Pete and their daughter Tinya - still a good friend of mine - boil down maple sugar. We spent the day. At the very end, as we were about to leave, Toshi and I gave each other a hug during which she whispered in my ear: "Cut your hair. You're not 13 anymore." That was Toshi.
How great would it have been to see THIS version of her in the film. It would have made everything more interesting, livelier and also funnier! Wow. I think I will add this comment to my piece as an update. What a great portrait.
I also knew Pete and Toshi and their extended family in Beacon. I concur with all of this - Toshi was Pete’s grounding connection to reality. She was caustic and funny and extremely practical. Pete was dreamy and tender and had a wild, constantly wandering imagination. I often had the sense that Pete would have lived a life of ideas and songs but gotten nothing large-scale built without Toshi. She would shoot down his ideas (which came to him fast and furious) much more often than support them. No support from Toshi equaled no-go. Pete and her had a fascinating dynamic of dreaming and doing together. It was a tender interplay. She was the family editor and producer. It's impossible to separate their impact on the world.
Personally, I think this depiction of Toshi is something of a gateway into larger shortcomings of the film, in terms of depicting the social milieu, history, and political stakes of the 'folk' movement... But that's for another post and forum. Thank you all - I love remembering Pete and Toshi.
I can't say I'm surprised at the incorrect depiction. Toshi was amazing. Remember her old friend (can't remember the name) speaking at Toshi's NYC memorial? They were both potters, but juggling kids, homes, and husband's careers . One day, a blizzard hit the mountain, and the kids were down at University Settlement. Toshi and her friend were marooned at the house, deliriously alone, and free to throw pots and be artists for a brief stretch of free time.
There are so many silent, bored, cigarette smoking women in Don’t Look Back they could have joined SAG/AFTRA. I think Marianne Faithfull was one of them.
Oh, and civil rights icon Bernice Johnson Reagon, of the Freedom Singers and founder of Sweet Honey in the Rock, named her daughter Toshi. Which should tell you something.
I had no idea Toshi was producer, director, festival creator/organizer, and I assume archivist and preservationist. A ton of partners of male musicians are unsung archivists and preservationists by default, never mentioned.
I think that part is not so much the concern of the male partners of female musicians, though some become the managers and controllers (or over-controllers).
But seems like the work of music that's closer to house- and child-keeping jobs is taken for granted if the female half is doing it. (Archival (early on) being like dealing w the 'clutter', 'putting away' and 'taking care/keeping track of'. Unnoticed managerial = 'entertaining', perhaps 'getting the guy to places on time' or 'collecting ticket $'.)
Back to Toshi -- I bet she played instruments and sang, which is never mentioned.
Speaking of who might bother to archive (early on) women musicians without a wife ... (and of course no generalization is true, it's entirely individual) .
I watched part of a video last night about Joan Baez, entering her storage locker to look for some stuff.
Narrator:
(Leslie Stahl, dramatically) "Her mother saved EVERYTHING. Home movies, letters. DRAWINGS. But Joan had never. even. looked at it."
I went to an exhibit at the U of Minnesota museum a couple of years ago, a random collection of Dylania. Anyway, the most memorable relics (to me) were original letters from Joan to Bob, which really gave you the sense he was a complete asshole to her.
Well, that doesn’t surprise me at all. Ego driven artist guys in show business are not the most empathetic bunch. What I have been wondering is how he matured into an old guy who tours 365 days a year but doesn’t seem to mind that EVERYONE leaves his concerts now moaning about how it was the worst show they ever saw. So…who did he become?
I have a friend who had a fling with Bob ages ago. Hadn't spoken to him in many years when, out of the blue, he stopped by her place of business (where the 20-somethings working the front desk told her "There's a dirty homeless-looking guy here asking for you."). She asked why he tours so much, and he replied "Do you know how many people I support?"
A musician friend has disillusioning stories about his treatment of women.
Singer-songwriter Britta Lee Shain wrote an interesting book "Seeing the Real You at Last: Life and Love on the Road with Bob Dylan" (It doesn't defame though.)
Actually, one of the few things she didn't do was play an instrument or sing! She was, however, the great ceramicist in what little spare time she had.
Toshi was an epic powerhouse. Brilliant, hardworking to a degree most people can only dream of, and possessed of an uncanny ability to organize and make do. Pete’s life would have been very different (and probably not in a good way) without her.
It was a fact of life at the Revival that if you saw something new and thought “My god! That’s brilliant! Why haven’t we ever had that before?” if you looked closely you’d see she’d written “Toshi” on it in permanent marker so she’d get it back at the end of the Revival. It is impossible to overstate her importance in Pete’s life or in countless things only he is famous for.
Anyone who tries to talk about Pete without talking about Toshi can only tell less than half the story. Their love was humbling to see, and we all knew he wouldn’t survive long after she died.
Oh, for fuck’s sake, really? In this day and age? Ugh. That’s..unfathomable.
I was lucky enough to be having dinner in the same restaurant as Pete and Toshi a few years ago, in Beacon. When they got up to leave, v e r y slowly, I heard Pete say to Toshi ‘How about you just get behind me..and PUSH.’ It was delightful. Happy holidays, Merrill!
Bravo to this one! Print it out and slip it under Bobs gate in a waterproof bag of course because who knows when he’ll be home! Also I see an op-Ed in here. Xo
The first thing my daughter and I said to each other as we came out of the theater was “they silenced Toshi” and we had no idea of the accomplishments/positions you mentioned. We had just picked up on her silent omnipresence Thanks for this.
Thank you for this. I haven't seen the movie yet, but, with your recommendation, I'll put aside my grumpy old fart tiredness of seeing Timotheee's face every five seconds and take in the movie. Also was doubtful about Edward Norton as Pete Seeger, but, again, must put aside my reluctance to see people with whom I'm very familiar played by actors with whom I'm very familiar (Lenny Bruce, Dustin Hoffman). I'm dumbfounded, though, by the film's treatment of Toshi Seeger, but I don't doubt for an instant that your description is spot on. This was such a golden opportunity to correct the longtime invisibility of such an important person in the folk music world, the world that interested me in music in the first place. I never made the Yoko Ono connection, but it was instantly obvious when you brought it up. What a crock of shit! I don't read a lot of reviews, but this is the first time anyone has even mentioned it. Of course, I canceled a lot of subscriptions during the time leading up to the election. To paraphrase the Lone Ranger in the oft-heard Jay Thomas story, "I'll listen to *you,* citizen." Merry Christmas!
Good lord, by the end of this piece the film has started to sound to me less like a biopic and more like some sort of post-modern Godardian experiment. You’ve absolutely established permanent ownership of the “scabrous but breezy” comedy lane.
I actually really enjoyed watching Mr. Chalamet do Dylan. He really nails it. And It was enlightening to be reminded that the dude was 22 years old when this all began for him. Ditto Monica Barbaro playing Joan Baez. It was only after I started noticing the amount that Toshi was appearing in the film and saying nothing that I realized the script actually sucks. But the performances of Chalamet and Barbaro are fantastic.
You might have heard this already but apparently Bob said nice things about “Timmy” and the film, even though he had not seen it at the time he was being interviewed.
I LOVE this—just as I loved Rainbow Bridge when I was a kid trapped in the suburbs with no direction home. All hail Toshi Seeger and Merril for brilliantly shouting her out.
So Toshi is the complete unknown!
Merrill!!! Bless you for the Toshi screed! As a half Japanese (retired) television producer (I know who does the heavy lifting in same, hence my worship of YOUR work) I went to a fancy screening (got swag, thanks marketing people) but was silently screaming about Toshi’s slight. I haven’t complained too much in public, saying rather “as a general rule, I don’t go for biopics but I’m glad new audiences will discover this music.” But YOU are my Christmas blessing. May Bob’s lights sparkle for you if you want em too.
Omg!! Thank you so much. This is so classic and so fucked. Merry Christmas. To women.
Toshi was nothing like depicted in the film. I knew Pete and Toshi very well for more than 40 years - from when I was really still a kid. Toshi was a force of nature. She was not an adoring Stepford wife. She was, in fact, Pete's highly influential and very active co-manager along with Harold Leventhal. She was brilliant, and she took no prisoners. She called a spade a spade. And she was the consummate organizer. By that I am not referring to closets. Pete would have an idealistic dream, like building a Sloop and making it a flagship of the environmental movement. Then Toshi would leverage his celebrity and her management expertise and strategic vision to make it happen. Personally, I considered her a second mother. The last time I saw her to speak to her, when I was in my fifties, I must have been going through some sort of midlife crisis because I'd let my hair grow long. I was up at their house with my son Bill and Bill's college roommate helping Toshi and Pete and their daughter Tinya - still a good friend of mine - boil down maple sugar. We spent the day. At the very end, as we were about to leave, Toshi and I gave each other a hug during which she whispered in my ear: "Cut your hair. You're not 13 anymore." That was Toshi.
How great would it have been to see THIS version of her in the film. It would have made everything more interesting, livelier and also funnier! Wow. I think I will add this comment to my piece as an update. What a great portrait.
I also knew Pete and Toshi and their extended family in Beacon. I concur with all of this - Toshi was Pete’s grounding connection to reality. She was caustic and funny and extremely practical. Pete was dreamy and tender and had a wild, constantly wandering imagination. I often had the sense that Pete would have lived a life of ideas and songs but gotten nothing large-scale built without Toshi. She would shoot down his ideas (which came to him fast and furious) much more often than support them. No support from Toshi equaled no-go. Pete and her had a fascinating dynamic of dreaming and doing together. It was a tender interplay. She was the family editor and producer. It's impossible to separate their impact on the world.
Personally, I think this depiction of Toshi is something of a gateway into larger shortcomings of the film, in terms of depicting the social milieu, history, and political stakes of the 'folk' movement... But that's for another post and forum. Thank you all - I love remembering Pete and Toshi.
How much better would a 'caustic, funny and practical' Toshi have made all the scenes she was in. Answer: SOO much better. Thanks for this.
I can't say I'm surprised at the incorrect depiction. Toshi was amazing. Remember her old friend (can't remember the name) speaking at Toshi's NYC memorial? They were both potters, but juggling kids, homes, and husband's careers . One day, a blizzard hit the mountain, and the kids were down at University Settlement. Toshi and her friend were marooned at the house, deliriously alone, and free to throw pots and be artists for a brief stretch of free time.
I was hoping you'd chime in, Ed! Her posture alone was so WRONG.
There are so many silent, bored, cigarette smoking women in Don’t Look Back they could have joined SAG/AFTRA. I think Marianne Faithfull was one of them.
Oh, and civil rights icon Bernice Johnson Reagon, of the Freedom Singers and founder of Sweet Honey in the Rock, named her daughter Toshi. Which should tell you something.
Lightbulb above my head moment! Of course!
I had no idea Toshi was producer, director, festival creator/organizer, and I assume archivist and preservationist. A ton of partners of male musicians are unsung archivists and preservationists by default, never mentioned.
I think that part is not so much the concern of the male partners of female musicians, though some become the managers and controllers (or over-controllers).
But seems like the work of music that's closer to house- and child-keeping jobs is taken for granted if the female half is doing it. (Archival (early on) being like dealing w the 'clutter', 'putting away' and 'taking care/keeping track of'. Unnoticed managerial = 'entertaining', perhaps 'getting the guy to places on time' or 'collecting ticket $'.)
Back to Toshi -- I bet she played instruments and sang, which is never mentioned.
Good points. Happy Holidays Lily. Thanks for all your very interesting and meaningful continued correspondence. I enjoy it.
Speaking of who might bother to archive (early on) women musicians without a wife ... (and of course no generalization is true, it's entirely individual) .
I watched part of a video last night about Joan Baez, entering her storage locker to look for some stuff.
Narrator:
(Leslie Stahl, dramatically) "Her mother saved EVERYTHING. Home movies, letters. DRAWINGS. But Joan had never. even. looked at it."
Ah, of course !
I went to an exhibit at the U of Minnesota museum a couple of years ago, a random collection of Dylania. Anyway, the most memorable relics (to me) were original letters from Joan to Bob, which really gave you the sense he was a complete asshole to her.
Well, that doesn’t surprise me at all. Ego driven artist guys in show business are not the most empathetic bunch. What I have been wondering is how he matured into an old guy who tours 365 days a year but doesn’t seem to mind that EVERYONE leaves his concerts now moaning about how it was the worst show they ever saw. So…who did he become?
Someone whose need never stops I guess. Or who can't be alone.
I have a friend who had a fling with Bob ages ago. Hadn't spoken to him in many years when, out of the blue, he stopped by her place of business (where the 20-somethings working the front desk told her "There's a dirty homeless-looking guy here asking for you."). She asked why he tours so much, and he replied "Do you know how many people I support?"
TBF, was there ever a 21-year-old boyfriend who was tender and empathetic? And how many cads ever matured anyway?
A musician friend has disillusioning stories about his treatment of women.
Singer-songwriter Britta Lee Shain wrote an interesting book "Seeing the Real You at Last: Life and Love on the Road with Bob Dylan" (It doesn't defame though.)
Btw Britta Lee Shain's songs are awesome.
Actually, one of the few things she didn't do was play an instrument or sing! She was, however, the great ceramicist in what little spare time she had.
Toshi was an epic powerhouse. Brilliant, hardworking to a degree most people can only dream of, and possessed of an uncanny ability to organize and make do. Pete’s life would have been very different (and probably not in a good way) without her.
It was a fact of life at the Revival that if you saw something new and thought “My god! That’s brilliant! Why haven’t we ever had that before?” if you looked closely you’d see she’d written “Toshi” on it in permanent marker so she’d get it back at the end of the Revival. It is impossible to overstate her importance in Pete’s life or in countless things only he is famous for.
Anyone who tries to talk about Pete without talking about Toshi can only tell less than half the story. Their love was humbling to see, and we all knew he wouldn’t survive long after she died.
Oh, for fuck’s sake, really? In this day and age? Ugh. That’s..unfathomable.
I was lucky enough to be having dinner in the same restaurant as Pete and Toshi a few years ago, in Beacon. When they got up to leave, v e r y slowly, I heard Pete say to Toshi ‘How about you just get behind me..and PUSH.’ It was delightful. Happy holidays, Merrill!
Happy Holidays to YOU, Sally.
Bravo to this one! Print it out and slip it under Bobs gate in a waterproof bag of course because who knows when he’ll be home! Also I see an op-Ed in here. Xo
The first thing my daughter and I said to each other as we came out of the theater was “they silenced Toshi” and we had no idea of the accomplishments/positions you mentioned. We had just picked up on her silent omnipresence Thanks for this.
Thank you for this. I haven't seen the movie yet, but, with your recommendation, I'll put aside my grumpy old fart tiredness of seeing Timotheee's face every five seconds and take in the movie. Also was doubtful about Edward Norton as Pete Seeger, but, again, must put aside my reluctance to see people with whom I'm very familiar played by actors with whom I'm very familiar (Lenny Bruce, Dustin Hoffman). I'm dumbfounded, though, by the film's treatment of Toshi Seeger, but I don't doubt for an instant that your description is spot on. This was such a golden opportunity to correct the longtime invisibility of such an important person in the folk music world, the world that interested me in music in the first place. I never made the Yoko Ono connection, but it was instantly obvious when you brought it up. What a crock of shit! I don't read a lot of reviews, but this is the first time anyone has even mentioned it. Of course, I canceled a lot of subscriptions during the time leading up to the election. To paraphrase the Lone Ranger in the oft-heard Jay Thomas story, "I'll listen to *you,* citizen." Merry Christmas!
Good,important piece—but I had nothing to do with writing the film.
Good lord, by the end of this piece the film has started to sound to me less like a biopic and more like some sort of post-modern Godardian experiment. You’ve absolutely established permanent ownership of the “scabrous but breezy” comedy lane.
I actually really enjoyed watching Mr. Chalamet do Dylan. He really nails it. And It was enlightening to be reminded that the dude was 22 years old when this all began for him. Ditto Monica Barbaro playing Joan Baez. It was only after I started noticing the amount that Toshi was appearing in the film and saying nothing that I realized the script actually sucks. But the performances of Chalamet and Barbaro are fantastic.
You might have heard this already but apparently Bob said nice things about “Timmy” and the film, even though he had not seen it at the time he was being interviewed.
That's a very strange way to give a compliment. "I haven't seen it, but I'm sure it's great."
I think Dylan approaches compliments with an awkward amount of caution, as one might when walking near a pommel horse.
Bob stands to gain a lot if this movie is popular. He is nothing if not canny.
“Scabrous but breezy comedy”! What a perfect description.
I LOVE this—just as I loved Rainbow Bridge when I was a kid trapped in the suburbs with no direction home. All hail Toshi Seeger and Merril for brilliantly shouting her out.
Yes Merrill is brilliant. Heroic. And a comic genius on top of that A national treasure as the saying goes.
That’s Merrill, of course!
See? This is why you should have written the movie.
Maybe Todd Haynes makes a movie ONLY about the Christmas lights. I'd see it.