Brilliant funny and right on the money as usual. I was in the midst of filming my own standup special and I wanted to add the something the producer did not want to pay for (out of MY money). He said, "When it's your special, you can add that". I said, "It IS my special!"
Love this. Your mother is a classic. I have a dear friend whose husband died young, leaving her with two little children. Her mother came to visit. My friend, trying to control her sobs: I'm in so much pain; I'm just devastated. Her Mother: YOU'RE devastated? How do you think I feel?
Ok, I will say up front that I do not have a fun quote about a narcissist. But, I will as any avid birder who has a learned a new song, start listening way more closely and more importantly start jotting these things down. Now, on with this anecdote that does involve someone, I don't know them personally, actually I don't know anyone personally in this anecdote. Well, my dad. But he's only mentioned in passing.
When I was in Junior high, I occasionally managed to stay up late enough to watch TV with my dad when he got home from work. One of his favorite shows starred this irreverent version of Johnny Carson. The show felt edgy and was as hilarious as it was surreal to my young developing mind. I remember this short sequence where the a cup of coffee is cut in half by a chain saw. Don't even remember if someone was in the shot just a pair of hands, a la Thing from the Adamm's Family and his brother wielding a chain saw to cut a styrofoam cup full of coffee in half vertically and none of the coffee spilling.
Anyway, loved the show until one day, it just didn't have that same feel to it anymore. It was flat, just not funny. It was almost annoying. I lost interest and stopped watching it. Then years later, I picked up a book from the local library. The author was hilarious. Digging into who she was a little bit more I learned why the show had stopped being funny.
Any whooo, glad you haven't stopped looking for the joke. Wish I had a pithy quote from some narcissist I could close with here. Awkward. Thanks for the laugh today!.
Aww. You are very kind. I know there were assorted bits involving chain saws but I dont remember that one. Oh well. I guess I will live. THanks for the compliments.
My mom was an extreme narcissist who could turn vacant and harsh without any warning, but probably the most corrosive aspect of her personality was her daily erasure of my own experiences for her own. If I did something notable at school, say a minuscule swimming achievement, she would say “well, I swam blah, blah, blah,” with zero interest in what I had done and it would happen every day, often two or three times a day, until I pretty much thought nothing of myself and faded in her presence. I remember when we were in public she was fond of rolling her eyes to shop clerks and other strangers and gesturing toward me with a “get a load of this brat” expression if I asserted an opinion that she didn’t like. She also donated my clothing to a church when I was away at college and put my furniture on the street. I could go on, but the good news is that with a ton of work and kindness from others I survived and eventually found my own identity and strength. But, man, it took a long time. I read your book, “Cool, Calm and Contentious,” years ago and it really rang true and gave me such a good laugh. So thank you for that. We’ve got to laugh at this crap and make something useful out of it. There’s no other way.
Nicely put. I'm sorry that happened to you. And yes...its very useful to real books to help push through the layer of greasey fog. Otherwise it is hard to tell what is real and what is just another mistake being made by you, the person who is too dumb to understand anything. Its a very confusing personality disorder. And very upsetting to see someone who has it dominating large groups of people at political rallies..
Still working on the quote. Appreciating everyone's insights.
Yes, its "hard to tell what is real and what is just another mistake being made by you." In my case w the now-worst narc family member, each effort to carefully respond w/ 'healthy communication" and "setting boundaries" brings intense rage at me. Which only worsens if I attempt to "fix" a "misunderstanding" by reframing as, or even assuming blame for, the nature of words and interpretations. So many years of damaging inner doubt from my "failure."
In my family the rage part may be combined with bipolar-like lack of emotional regulation. The effect is the same, a control mechanism. "I must control you to control my difficulties." There is no fix. It just gets worse. Despite considerable adjustment b/c I empathizie w their other problems. Perhaps their anger and narc symptoms are increasing with age.
(Being my mom's executor and designated caretaker of a family cabin required years of trying, I felt. But also made her control needs much worse. By now I understand that the mental health damage to me is too great.)
It's a quandary. I see no way out. Internally separating entirely has started to work, like a fraction, but my ability comes and goes. Giving up, letting the wider workings of the universe handle it, lately brings mental relief until an immediate issue crops up.
Sounds like you are doing what can be done. Ultimately the message is the same one they underline in Alanon. You have to get rid of the idea that you somehow have enough power to not only cause they problems but to fix them. Once I understood that, it changes a lot of how I interact. But yeah---when it's Mom, it's never a full stop fix. They have too much power.And boy, they realy pick up on it when you stop playing into their drama. They really know that you are doing something weird. They do NOT like it. My mother went off to the great beyond and it is a relief not to have to make these calculations any more.
Not sure if this is helpful for your particular situation (or to anyone else), but for a dollar I bought a silent ring tone at the Apple Store and assigned it to my mom’s number. That way she could call me multiple times a day, but I was blissfully unaware and could respond in my own time. It’s a great tool for managing narcissists who like to speed dial.
This is funny only in a horrifying way. My father, a proud Leatherman who referred to his lover as his slave, once expressed shock that (1) there are Black Leathermen and (2) they have their own clubs and didn’t come to the gay clubs in his part of town. When I noted that the white supremacist overtones of the Leather movement might be alienating to Black men, he said, “but who wouldn’t want to fuck me!?”
HAAAA. Great! That is immediately in contention for the winner. Yes, funny in a horrifying way. Unfortunately that is a category I have a great appreciation for because its at least an option to pure horror!
There are several official features of narcissistic personality, with the major three features being lack of empathy as you point out, struggles with insight, and grandiosity.
The development of narcissistic personality, I think derives from growing up praised or recognized for one or two achievements or qualities, while the rest of one’s qualities and personality are ignored or dismissed.
Thinking about this probable history helps me find my empathy for narcissists.
Thanks. Yes, its possible to have empathy for a narcissist but not a good idea to be involved with them. It can never work out. And perhaps you have also heard of the third act, which involves what they call "devaluation"....where the narcissist decides you have disappointed them and turns on you.
There's a lot of crazy manipulating going on. It's all pretty complicated and unexpected from a stand point of those of us who were raised to worry about other people's feelings. It's very upside down and backwards. It took me a long time to get any kind of a grasp on it. And even now, it still is surprising.
To childhood me he was. Pandering and boring. I hated that show. I know he went on to a lengthy career selling orthopedic arm chairs so...that's not nothing!
Yes, completely hated all those pandering shows peddled to or about kids. Love this essay and I am now on the lookout for quotes.
I work on the San Francisco Bay ferries and had a very narcissistic lead deckhand. I was talking to my other crew mate at lunch one day, discussing a book on spirituality we both happened to be reading.
The narcissist got up and started over to us, asking, "What are you talking about?"
It was a hot day, and I didn't want to deal with snarky comments from him, so I said, "None of your business."
He stopped in his tracks, his face turned red, he did an about face, and made the rest of the six weeks we worked together completely miserable.
I was on the show when I was about five or six! I remember wearing a new pretty dress and feeling special. The grownups on the show had previewed the questions with us (I remember one telling me, “that’s good — say it just like that!”). But I felt humiliated and embarrassed when we were live, sitting in tall chairs with bright lights in our faces. The whole audience laughed as I answered Mr. Linklater’s questions. I saw him turn and wink at the audience. They were… laughing at all of us! As I write this I wonder how deeply and irreversibly this experience may have affected my self-esteem. We did receive free toys for our efforts.
Even now, free toys are the best most of us can expect from any humiliating experience. I totally get what you are saying. I have a memory of being 3 years old and being annoyed that I felt adults in the room were pandering to me.
Oh, thanks - his name was on the tip of my tongue. I think he was widely considered kind of a Mister Rogers of that time, without the same real attunement to kids. Very fifties.
I will be saving this blog post as well as the other you wrote.
Oh, I'm sure if this is a new game, I'll win the Chevy Chevette behind Narc Door No 1 (but since it is a Narc game, it will be a shiny Chevette with black interior and no AC...I digress.)
This is one of the best or worst: I am the youngest of three, with two older brothers. Mother Narc/Histrionic, Dad? a witch's caldron full of blech.
Anyway, the oldest brother was the 'Sun God' who was smart in school, skipped the 7th grade because of it, and all eyes were on him to go to college. Every move he made was celebrated! He was exactly Eddie Haskell to my middle brother and to me, and he, too, is a chip off the ole' Narc block now. Oh, he did go to college, on a complete scholarship, then he informed my parents his senior year that he wasn't graduating, as both parents sat with that Amway salesperson stare and fake smile.
Middle brother was not college material but was worshipped anyway. Me? Nobody cared about my grades, what I wanted to do with my life, really. Mom was critical, like yours, and before this sounds like me singing lines from "At the Ballet" from a Chorus Line, let me get to the damn comment.
Needless to say, whether I really wanted to go to college or not--my grades weren't stellar, except in Language Arts, etc. I was struggling in my freshman year at college, when "Sun God" refused to finish and graduate college.
It was impressed upon me, I guess if he was "Sun God" my sobriquet was "Oh God," yet my mother pitted us against each other, as we both had quick wits, etc. I don't know.
I labored in college, only doing well, really, when I got to my major related classes--yeah, obviously I wasn't too smart, as I majored in Liberal Arts in the swingin' 1980s--I finally was in my last semester before graduation.
I asked dear Narc Mom--since you know, I am the only child graduating from college, and since I was forced to attend "Sun God's" glorious high school graduation, with both sets of grandparents, and I believe some heads of state-- "How many graduation tickets do you want me to get?"
Her response: "Oh, were you planning on your father and I actually attending? Not sure your brothers will care."
Yikes. Awful. (tho I too have a grisly graduation story.) But yes, that is an amazing line. (And poor little you, thinking something was suddenly different now.) But now I gotta ask: are you the Liz Borden I used to do yoga next to? You certainly are a good writer.
Why in the world would I ever seek insight from you? I have already come up with a complete and perfect world view and I doubt you would have anything to add.
And, now that I have wasted time reading and replying to your post, I will have to put off working on the next great American novel yet another night, thank you very much.
“What are we supposed to talk about? The weather?” Just wow. You can’t make this shit up.
My adult daughter’s adoptive father a decade ago when she was 18 and the two of us first reunited: “She and I started fighting when she was four years old. She was just so obstinate and difficult.”
My face: Um, the toddler was to blame in the fight with a grown man?
Here for the comedy. And down for this side of narcissism. 😉
My oldest son, “Even though I have the least amount of education in our family, I am the most intelligent. Maybe the ONLY intelligent one.” I’ve unfortunately lost him to the MAGA cult.
Brilliant funny and right on the money as usual. I was in the midst of filming my own standup special and I wanted to add the something the producer did not want to pay for (out of MY money). He said, "When it's your special, you can add that". I said, "It IS my special!"
Love this. Your mother is a classic. I have a dear friend whose husband died young, leaving her with two little children. Her mother came to visit. My friend, trying to control her sobs: I'm in so much pain; I'm just devastated. Her Mother: YOU'RE devastated? How do you think I feel?
Ok, I will say up front that I do not have a fun quote about a narcissist. But, I will as any avid birder who has a learned a new song, start listening way more closely and more importantly start jotting these things down. Now, on with this anecdote that does involve someone, I don't know them personally, actually I don't know anyone personally in this anecdote. Well, my dad. But he's only mentioned in passing.
When I was in Junior high, I occasionally managed to stay up late enough to watch TV with my dad when he got home from work. One of his favorite shows starred this irreverent version of Johnny Carson. The show felt edgy and was as hilarious as it was surreal to my young developing mind. I remember this short sequence where the a cup of coffee is cut in half by a chain saw. Don't even remember if someone was in the shot just a pair of hands, a la Thing from the Adamm's Family and his brother wielding a chain saw to cut a styrofoam cup full of coffee in half vertically and none of the coffee spilling.
Anyway, loved the show until one day, it just didn't have that same feel to it anymore. It was flat, just not funny. It was almost annoying. I lost interest and stopped watching it. Then years later, I picked up a book from the local library. The author was hilarious. Digging into who she was a little bit more I learned why the show had stopped being funny.
Any whooo, glad you haven't stopped looking for the joke. Wish I had a pithy quote from some narcissist I could close with here. Awkward. Thanks for the laugh today!.
Aww. You are very kind. I know there were assorted bits involving chain saws but I dont remember that one. Oh well. I guess I will live. THanks for the compliments.
My mom was an extreme narcissist who could turn vacant and harsh without any warning, but probably the most corrosive aspect of her personality was her daily erasure of my own experiences for her own. If I did something notable at school, say a minuscule swimming achievement, she would say “well, I swam blah, blah, blah,” with zero interest in what I had done and it would happen every day, often two or three times a day, until I pretty much thought nothing of myself and faded in her presence. I remember when we were in public she was fond of rolling her eyes to shop clerks and other strangers and gesturing toward me with a “get a load of this brat” expression if I asserted an opinion that she didn’t like. She also donated my clothing to a church when I was away at college and put my furniture on the street. I could go on, but the good news is that with a ton of work and kindness from others I survived and eventually found my own identity and strength. But, man, it took a long time. I read your book, “Cool, Calm and Contentious,” years ago and it really rang true and gave me such a good laugh. So thank you for that. We’ve got to laugh at this crap and make something useful out of it. There’s no other way.
Nicely put. I'm sorry that happened to you. And yes...its very useful to real books to help push through the layer of greasey fog. Otherwise it is hard to tell what is real and what is just another mistake being made by you, the person who is too dumb to understand anything. Its a very confusing personality disorder. And very upsetting to see someone who has it dominating large groups of people at political rallies..
Still working on the quote. Appreciating everyone's insights.
Yes, its "hard to tell what is real and what is just another mistake being made by you." In my case w the now-worst narc family member, each effort to carefully respond w/ 'healthy communication" and "setting boundaries" brings intense rage at me. Which only worsens if I attempt to "fix" a "misunderstanding" by reframing as, or even assuming blame for, the nature of words and interpretations. So many years of damaging inner doubt from my "failure."
In my family the rage part may be combined with bipolar-like lack of emotional regulation. The effect is the same, a control mechanism. "I must control you to control my difficulties." There is no fix. It just gets worse. Despite considerable adjustment b/c I empathizie w their other problems. Perhaps their anger and narc symptoms are increasing with age.
(Being my mom's executor and designated caretaker of a family cabin required years of trying, I felt. But also made her control needs much worse. By now I understand that the mental health damage to me is too great.)
It's a quandary. I see no way out. Internally separating entirely has started to work, like a fraction, but my ability comes and goes. Giving up, letting the wider workings of the universe handle it, lately brings mental relief until an immediate issue crops up.
Sounds like you are doing what can be done. Ultimately the message is the same one they underline in Alanon. You have to get rid of the idea that you somehow have enough power to not only cause they problems but to fix them. Once I understood that, it changes a lot of how I interact. But yeah---when it's Mom, it's never a full stop fix. They have too much power.And boy, they realy pick up on it when you stop playing into their drama. They really know that you are doing something weird. They do NOT like it. My mother went off to the great beyond and it is a relief not to have to make these calculations any more.
Not sure if this is helpful for your particular situation (or to anyone else), but for a dollar I bought a silent ring tone at the Apple Store and assigned it to my mom’s number. That way she could call me multiple times a day, but I was blissfully unaware and could respond in my own time. It’s a great tool for managing narcissists who like to speed dial.
From mother-in-law - "I'm always surprised that I am so much smarter than my children."
This is funny only in a horrifying way. My father, a proud Leatherman who referred to his lover as his slave, once expressed shock that (1) there are Black Leathermen and (2) they have their own clubs and didn’t come to the gay clubs in his part of town. When I noted that the white supremacist overtones of the Leather movement might be alienating to Black men, he said, “but who wouldn’t want to fuck me!?”
I have so many more like this one . . .
HAAAA. Great! That is immediately in contention for the winner. Yes, funny in a horrifying way. Unfortunately that is a category I have a great appreciation for because its at least an option to pure horror!
Always counting on the goofy. Many thanks. 👏👏
Me too!
That article was on the money and sad true and funny, thanks for the light and laughter today.
Good one!
There are several official features of narcissistic personality, with the major three features being lack of empathy as you point out, struggles with insight, and grandiosity.
The development of narcissistic personality, I think derives from growing up praised or recognized for one or two achievements or qualities, while the rest of one’s qualities and personality are ignored or dismissed.
Thinking about this probable history helps me find my empathy for narcissists.
Thanks again for writing this. It’s a good one!
Thanks. Yes, its possible to have empathy for a narcissist but not a good idea to be involved with them. It can never work out. And perhaps you have also heard of the third act, which involves what they call "devaluation"....where the narcissist decides you have disappointed them and turns on you.
Yes. Something like, "You have wounded my fragile ego. I want to annihilate you."
The narcissist stops short of the antisocial personality who would add, "I know how to do that."
There's a lot of crazy manipulating going on. It's all pretty complicated and unexpected from a stand point of those of us who were raised to worry about other people's feelings. It's very upside down and backwards. It took me a long time to get any kind of a grasp on it. And even now, it still is surprising.
Art Linkletter was “skeevy”? I must look that up…
Thank you, as always, Merrill!
To childhood me he was. Pandering and boring. I hated that show. I know he went on to a lengthy career selling orthopedic arm chairs so...that's not nothing!
Yes, completely hated all those pandering shows peddled to or about kids. Love this essay and I am now on the lookout for quotes.
I work on the San Francisco Bay ferries and had a very narcissistic lead deckhand. I was talking to my other crew mate at lunch one day, discussing a book on spirituality we both happened to be reading.
The narcissist got up and started over to us, asking, "What are you talking about?"
It was a hot day, and I didn't want to deal with snarky comments from him, so I said, "None of your business."
He stopped in his tracks, his face turned red, he did an about face, and made the rest of the six weeks we worked together completely miserable.
I was on the show when I was about five or six! I remember wearing a new pretty dress and feeling special. The grownups on the show had previewed the questions with us (I remember one telling me, “that’s good — say it just like that!”). But I felt humiliated and embarrassed when we were live, sitting in tall chairs with bright lights in our faces. The whole audience laughed as I answered Mr. Linklater’s questions. I saw him turn and wink at the audience. They were… laughing at all of us! As I write this I wonder how deeply and irreversibly this experience may have affected my self-esteem. We did receive free toys for our efforts.
Even now, free toys are the best most of us can expect from any humiliating experience. I totally get what you are saying. I have a memory of being 3 years old and being annoyed that I felt adults in the room were pandering to me.
Oh, thanks - his name was on the tip of my tongue. I think he was widely considered kind of a Mister Rogers of that time, without the same real attunement to kids. Very fifties.
I will be saving this blog post as well as the other you wrote.
Oh, I'm sure if this is a new game, I'll win the Chevy Chevette behind Narc Door No 1 (but since it is a Narc game, it will be a shiny Chevette with black interior and no AC...I digress.)
This is one of the best or worst: I am the youngest of three, with two older brothers. Mother Narc/Histrionic, Dad? a witch's caldron full of blech.
Anyway, the oldest brother was the 'Sun God' who was smart in school, skipped the 7th grade because of it, and all eyes were on him to go to college. Every move he made was celebrated! He was exactly Eddie Haskell to my middle brother and to me, and he, too, is a chip off the ole' Narc block now. Oh, he did go to college, on a complete scholarship, then he informed my parents his senior year that he wasn't graduating, as both parents sat with that Amway salesperson stare and fake smile.
Middle brother was not college material but was worshipped anyway. Me? Nobody cared about my grades, what I wanted to do with my life, really. Mom was critical, like yours, and before this sounds like me singing lines from "At the Ballet" from a Chorus Line, let me get to the damn comment.
Needless to say, whether I really wanted to go to college or not--my grades weren't stellar, except in Language Arts, etc. I was struggling in my freshman year at college, when "Sun God" refused to finish and graduate college.
It was impressed upon me, I guess if he was "Sun God" my sobriquet was "Oh God," yet my mother pitted us against each other, as we both had quick wits, etc. I don't know.
I labored in college, only doing well, really, when I got to my major related classes--yeah, obviously I wasn't too smart, as I majored in Liberal Arts in the swingin' 1980s--I finally was in my last semester before graduation.
I asked dear Narc Mom--since you know, I am the only child graduating from college, and since I was forced to attend "Sun God's" glorious high school graduation, with both sets of grandparents, and I believe some heads of state-- "How many graduation tickets do you want me to get?"
Her response: "Oh, were you planning on your father and I actually attending? Not sure your brothers will care."
I ended up having the diploma mailed to me.
Yikes. Awful. (tho I too have a grisly graduation story.) But yes, that is an amazing line. (And poor little you, thinking something was suddenly different now.) But now I gotta ask: are you the Liz Borden I used to do yoga next to? You certainly are a good writer.
Why in the world would I ever seek insight from you? I have already come up with a complete and perfect world view and I doubt you would have anything to add.
And, now that I have wasted time reading and replying to your post, I will have to put off working on the next great American novel yet another night, thank you very much.
(Did I get the assignment right?)
I wrote a whole thing but, I better not.
Let's just say my parents divorce was our secret 1970 Christmas present!
Grueling and mentally fatiguing being raised and growing up with one.
No idea how you managed it.
great way to get my mind off don the con though! Thank you
“I’m breaking up with you and I’ll help you through it.”
Perfect. That is HILARIOUS. Thank you.
“What are we supposed to talk about? The weather?” Just wow. You can’t make this shit up.
My adult daughter’s adoptive father a decade ago when she was 18 and the two of us first reunited: “She and I started fighting when she was four years old. She was just so obstinate and difficult.”
My face: Um, the toddler was to blame in the fight with a grown man?
Here for the comedy. And down for this side of narcissism. 😉
My oldest son, “Even though I have the least amount of education in our family, I am the most intelligent. Maybe the ONLY intelligent one.” I’ve unfortunately lost him to the MAGA cult.
Oh brother. That must be rough. I am so sorry.